Каморка

ЛекМих писал(а):

Gadi писал(а):
я вам более скажу: "коренные" канадцы, родившиеся здесь, тоже "другого сорта" граждане - у них нет возможности посетить Россию (например) без визы, и тем более у них есть очень мало шансов получить гражданство России, намного меньше, чем у вас потерять канадское.

Не скажите. Вот интересное место на 19-ой страничке.

Canadians whose ancestors came from countries that recognize dual citizenship and
pass citizenship to generations born abroad would face the prospect of revocation.

http://www.cba.org/cba/submissions/pdf/14-22-eng.pdf

Проф. Преображенский писал(а):

ЛекМих писал(а):

Gadi писал(а):
я вам более скажу: "коренные" канадцы, родившиеся здесь, тоже "другого сорта" граждане - у них нет возможности посетить Россию (например) без визы, и тем более у них есть очень мало шансов получить гражданство России, намного меньше, чем у вас потерять канадское.

Не скажите. Вот интересное место на 19-ой страничке.

Canadians whose ancestors came from countries that recognize dual citizenship and
pass citizenship to generations born abroad would face the prospect of revocation.

http://www.cba.org/cba/submissions/pdf/14-22-eng.pdf

Вот тоже интересный вопрос: для детей, которые не имели гражданства России (были рождены уроженцами России) необходимо ли и как отказываться от возможного гражданства?

ЗЫ: в принципе все подобные вопросы чисто теоретические, т.к. краймом, терроризмом никто (надеюсь) не собирается заниматься. Если собирается, то как раз против них билл и направлен - и пусть они визжат и вертятся как вша на гребешке. Поделом.
Что касается возможных злоупотреблений, то здесь вам не там. А если, внимание, такое случится - то нахрена такая Канада?

Akka писал(а):Я что-то вижу в интернете дискуссии по поводу того, что мол с новым законом граждане "второго сорта" мол могут потерять гражданство, если типа решать поехать работать/учиться/жить /замуж и тп куда-то еще .

Akka писал(а): Т.е. типа сказал, что intend to reside, а потом через десять лет куда-то решил перебраться -> что это будет означать, что нарушил клятву? Что-то неправдоподобно как-то, тем более в случае родившихся здесь .

Akka писал(а): Вот тоже интересный вопрос: для детей, которые не имели гражданства России (были рождены уроженцами России) необходимо ли и как отказываться от возможного гражданства?

Mr. Trump писал(а):
Я сейчас пытаюсь найти подтверждение по одному высказванию Криса Александра

Senator Eaton: Minister, one last question. Several people have been very concerned because they say that, for instance, if you're Iranian or Egyptian — and I know Iran is this way — if you're born in Iran, you're always Iranian; you are always a citizen. So if I am Iranian or Persian, get Canadian citizenship, go back to Iran, am taken prisoner, they would consider I'm a dual citizen; or is there a way of renouncing that?

Mr. Alexander: There is a way of renouncing every citizenship. No one in our country can be forced to be a citizen of any country. Under the laws of Canada, citizenship can be renounced, either ours or those of other countries.

Senator Eaton: In our eyes, they have renounced it.

Akka писал(а): Я что-то вижу в интернете дискуссии по поводу того, что мол с новым законом граждане "второго сорта" мол могут потерять гражданство, если типа решать поехать работать/учиться/жить /замуж и тп куда-то еще .

Mr. Alexander: There's no requirement for a citizen of Canada to remain physically in Canada once granted citizenship, so there is no question of interpretation here.

I have one other question, if I might, around the intent to continue to reside in Canada, which is the language in the bill. Again, there was some confusion about a particular circumstance, if you might help us clarify that.

We heard that a naturalized citizen can be stripped of their citizenship if they take a job abroad for a length of time. For example, if when they apply for citizenship they have that period of four out of six years that they have to be physically present in Canada, and they have to declare that their intent is to reside in Canada — and "to continue to reside in Canada" is the language — we were told that once the person acquires citizenship, if they work outside the country and suddenly leave the country and go to work somewhere —

Mr. Alexander: No problem.

Senator Seidman: — that they would be revoked, that they were in a situation where their citizenship could be revoked because they were now going back on their intent to reside in Canada.

Mr. Alexander: No, absolutely not. The intent to reside relates only to the requirement to be resident in Canada for four out of six years to meet the requirements of citizenship. We want people to intend to meet those requirements so that they actually do meet those requirements. I'm not taking issue with your argument in any sense. I know that you are trying to clarify this issue. But I have trouble understanding how anyone could argue that a person, a permanent resident, would fulfill those four years out of six without intending to — as it were, by accident.

So it's a common-sense measure. It's something that clarifies an issue where, because of abuse, there had been a lack of clarity in the past, and no one at any stage is barred from changing their intention. If you change it before you've met the four years requirement, you won't become a citizen, or at least not at this stage in your life. If you change it the day after the ceremony, off you go.

Mr. Trump писал(а):

Akka писал(а): ЯMr. Alexander: No, absolutely not. The intent to reside relates only to the requirement to be resident in Canada for four out of six years to meet the requirements of citizenship. We want people to intend to meet those requirements so that they actually do meet those requirements. I'm not taking issue with your argument in any sense. I know that you are trying to clarify this issue. But I have trouble understanding how anyone could argue that a person, a permanent resident, would fulfill those four years out of six without intending to — as it were, by accident.

So it's a common-sense measure. It's something that clarifies an issue where, because of abuse, there had been a lack of clarity in the past, and no one at any stage is barred from changing their intention. If you change it before you've met the four years requirement, you won't become a citizen, or at least not at this stage in your life. If you change it the day after the ceremony, off you go.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/commi ... 1529-E.HTM

Vovchik писал(а): Don't take it personally - you are thinking like an accountant, not like a lawyer. You are also thinking in terms of continental law, not common law. The opinion of the current minister is not a court decision. It is not binding to anyone. The way 'intent' is worded in the law represent a huge problem for any common law lawyer. Now I am not a lawyer but I am Erin Brokovitch - I am selling my solutions to lawyers. I know way more how the justice process works in common law jurisdictions around the world than many lawyers. You think the Minister will decide? No. The credit officer in the bank does not decide if you get a loan. The visa officer does not decide if you get a visa into Canada. A computer program does. Written by a subcontractor of a subcontractor of a contractor. They make a lot of mistakes - they are not licensed like lawyers and the people who developed these programms are lucky to be paid $40 per hour while the client is forking out $200. So I do not have any trust for any government agency these days - but I do trust the courts way more. They do it the old way - live hearing with real people and debating.

Vovchik писал(а):Here ya go: a practical exercise.

2 Canadians barred from leaving Malaysia, after tourists blamed for earthquake

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/2-canadian ... -1.2410446

In the opinion of Malaysian public - have these 2 girls committed an act of terrorism? May be. Will Malaysian court convict them of the act of terrorism and sentence to at least 5 years in prison? May be. So in this case - what will the Minister do if He find out that they would not become stateless in case the Minister strips them of Canadian citizenship? Send them a letter stating that their Canadian citizenships have been revoked? That's what the Minister can do based on the new law.

Vovchik писал(а):Here ya go: a practical exercise.

2 Canadians barred from leaving Malaysia, after tourists blamed for earthquake

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/2-canadian ... -1.2410446

In the opinion of Malaysian public - have these 2 girls committed an act of terrorism? May be. Will Malaysian court convict them of the act of terrorism and sentence to at least 5 years in prison? May be. So in this case - what will the Minister do if they find out that they would not become stateless in case the Minister strips them of Canadian citizenship? Send them a letter stating that their Canadian citizenships have been revoked? That's what the Minister can do based on the new law.

QueenR писал(а): С ума сойти! Как страшно жить...
Вот мне интересно, они там в Малайзии везде на богов полагаются?

mikei писал(а):

QueenR писал(а): С ума сойти! Как страшно жить...
Вот мне интересно, они там в Малайзии везде на богов полагаются?

Не в том пойнт.